Energy

“Episode 100 – The Great Simplification” (Interviewed by Kate Raworth)

December 8, 2023

Conversation recorded on November 21st, 2023)

Show Summary

On this special 100th episode, Nate is interviewed by his friend and colleague in the metacrisis space, Kate Raworth. The conversation is a reflection on the past two years of podcasting – and how Nate’s worldview has evolved because of it. What fundamental concepts could help us better understand the trends happening around us and the potential futures they point to? With so many moving pieces, how can we begin to create a coherent story of the world around us and – even more difficult – start preparing responses to coming challenges? What should individuals aware of these converging crises be thinking about in order to prepare themselves, their families, and their communities for a materially smaller future?

About Nate Hagens

Nate Hagens is the Director of The Institute for the Study of Energy & Our Future (ISEOF) an organization focused on educating and preparing society for the coming cultural transition. Allied with leading ecologists, energy experts, politicians and systems thinkers, ISEOF assembles road-maps and off-ramps for how human societies can adapt to lower throughput lifestyles. Nate holds a Masters Degree in Finance with Honors from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in Natural Resources from the University of Vermont. He teaches an Honors course, Reality 101, at the University of Minnesota.

About Kate Raworth

Kate Raworth describes herself as a renegade economist focused on making economics fit for 21st century realities. She is the creator of the Doughnut of social and planetary boundaries, and co-founder of Doughnut Economics Action Lab, based on her best-selling book Doughnut Economics: 7 Ways to Think Like a 21st Century Economist. Kate is a Senior Associate at Oxford University’s Environmental Change Institute, where she teaches on the Masters in Environmental Change and Management. She is also Professor of Practice at Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences. She is a member of the Club of Rome and currently serves on the World Health Organisation Council on the Economics of Health for All.

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/GocuMZX3hIs

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

PDF Transcript

00:00 – Nate Hagens Work + Info, Frankly Series

05:15 – Energy Blindness

05:54 – 400-500 billion fossil laborers in the global economy

05:55 – We are depleting these fossil stores rapidly

06:32 – Economic growth is linked to energy growth (Section 1.2)

07:05 – Carbon Pulse

08:45 – Superorganism

09:42 – Economic growth 100% linked to material consumption

11:06 – Mordor EconomyJ.R.R. Tolkien

12:27 – 1999 all time low of energy extraction as part of the economy (5%) but has grown by 10% since

13:10 – Ecological destruction of the economy

14:28 – Nate on AI

15:11 – Jevons Paradox

16:52 – Metacrisis/Polycrisis

20:23 – 13k Nuclear Warheads

20:47 – Just in time supply chain

21:02 – Food travels on average 1500 miles to the dinner plate in the US

27:27 – Donut Economics

30:18 – Citizen Kane

33:38 – Minsky Moment

38:39 – Humans weren’t evolved to handle modern day stress, but human connection helps

41:32 – Harms/dangers of social mediabenefits/utilitarian uses

43:50 – Mark Twain, “Buy land, they’re not making it anymore

45:26 – Rural vs Urban sustainability debate

47:11 – Robert Saposky + TGS Episode

48:18 – Maximum Power Principle

48:48 – Rube Goldberg Machine

49:28 – Infinite growth is impossible

49:45 – New oil drilling leases granted in Alaska and the North Sea

50:31 – Since the Paris accords, we’ve grown coal capacity by 200 GW

53:02 – Fossil Fuel Non-proliferation treaty

53:52 – Degrowth vs Post-growth

54:21 – China has the most renewable energy, and the most coal (and increasing)

57:09 – Nate’s Homeland Security Presentation

58:02 – Renewables are actually rebuildables

1:00:36 – Joslin Faith Kehdy + TGS Episode

1:06:05 – Financial Overshoot

1:11:48 – Bill McKibben

1:12:40 – Civil disobedience

1:16:50 – Parallel Currency

1:18:10 – Bernard Lietaer

1:18:14 – Stephanie Kelton, Modern Monetary Theory

1:22:55 – Privilege of the dollar as the reserve currency

1:23:25 – US credit rating downgrades

1:26:36 – Jean Marc Jancovici + TGS Episode, Simon Michaux + TGS Episodes, Sandra Faber 

1:31:30 – Inter and Intra country inequality

1:35:59 – Advance Policy

1:52:25 – Helen Thompson + TGS Episode

Nate Hagens

Nate Hagens

Nate Hagens is the Director of The Institute for the Study of Energy & Our Future (ISEOF) an organization focused on educating and preparing society for the coming cultural transition. Allied with leading ecologists, energy experts, politicians and systems thinkers ISEOF assembles road-maps and off-ramps for how human societies can adapt to lower throughput lifestyles. Nate holds a Masters Degree in Finance with Honors from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in Natural Resources from the University of Vermont. He teaches an Honors course, Reality 101, at the University of Minnesota.